| GUEST PROFILE Finian Toh, Managing Director, ChapmanCG, a global HR search firm with presence in all major geographies, specializing in placing HR leaders across industries. Connect with Finian Toh on LinkedIn |
This episode was hosted by Manjeet Kaur, Xobin.
Table of Contents
TL;DR – Key Takeaways!
- HR professionals are the last people to practice what they preach on self-care. They run well-being programs for employees while quietly absorbing the stress themselves. Burnout is not a personal failure in HR. It is a structural one, and it needs the same organizational response as any other workforce risk.
- An HR career is not a straight ladder. It is a lattice. The fastest routes to senior leadership often run through functions outside HR: finance, operations, business partnership. Cross-functional experience is what turns an HR professional into a strategic business partner rather than a process owner.
- Curiosity and resilience are the skills that outlast every job title. Technology changes the tools, geopolitical shifts change the market, and roles get restructured. The professionals who stay relevant are those who stay hungry, not those who master one thing and stop.
- Reverse mentoring works because most communication breakdowns in multigenerational teams are about assumptions, not ability. Pairing a Gen Z employee as a mentor to a senior leader closes the assumption gap faster than any policy or training programme.
- Personality fit can matter more than culture fit. Company culture is broad, but the manager-employee relationship often shapes whether someone stays or leaves.
Finian Toh did not set out to work in HR. Six years as a chartered accountant led him to Singapore, where recruitment came by chance and ended up lasting fifteen years. He now runs the Singapore office of ChapmanCG, one of the world’s leading HR search firms, having placed hundreds of HR leaders and observed what separates those who reach the CHRO level from those who plateau.
In Xobin Talk Episode #19, Manjeet explores the questions many HR professionals face today: how to build a lasting career, protect their well-being, and develop leadership skills that make a real difference.
“HR Professionals Are Busy Taking Care of Everyone. Who Is Taking Care of Them?”
Manjeet starts with a difficult truth about the profession. HR leaders create wellness programs, support employee mental health, and promote well-being at work. Yet, many of them struggle to take care of their own mental health.
The Burnout Problem Nobody in HR Talks About
Finian: “HR professionals are people just like everyone else. As all humans we have ups and downs in life. Self-care is of top priority because only when we care about ourselves, only then can we take care of others.”
Robert Half’s 2025 Canada report found that Legal and HR professionals are reporting the highest burnout levels of any professional category, at 59% (Robert Half, 2025). Pressures on the profession have intensified as AI and new employment legislation add complexity to an already demanding role.
Finian: “The pandemic put a lot of pressure on HR professionals. The well-being agenda was so prominent that HR professionals were so busy taking care of the company, taking care of employees, and forgot to take care of themselves.”
What Self-Care Actually Looks Like in Practice
Finian’s framing cuts through the abstraction: self-care is not about wellness apps or gym memberships but about knowing when to take a break before the break takes you.
Finian: “Take 10 minutes to pause and keep both feet firmly on the floor. Focus on where you are and what is happening around you instead of getting caught up in other situations or people’s problems. Pay attention to your surroundings and stay aware of yourself in the present moment.”
Your Own Team’s Attrition Rate Is a Warning Signal
A high attrition rate in your HR team is a structural problem, not a coincidence. If the people responsible for retention cannot retain their own team, the issue starts with whether the HR leader is modelling what they preach.
Finian: “As managers, as leaders, they also need to take stock of their own team. When you have high attrition in the HR team, that is a warning signal. The HR leader will need to set the precedence, set the example, for the people.”
“What Career Paths Are Actually Open to Someone in HR?”
HR career options are broader than most people entering the profession expect. The full function spans total rewards, learning and development, HR operations, HRIS, employee relations, organizational design, and people analytics. Talent acquisition is one subset of many.
Finian: “Human Resources is a function that continues to evolve. The journey of continuous learning is very important in this environment. Just being stuck in what you do, that won’t take you far.”
Today’s HR career trajectories are far more varied than before, but a gap persists between operational confidence and strategic, financially-literate decision-making. That gap is where many careers stall.
Curiosity
Not a passive interest in keeping up but a genuine hunger to understand how the business works, what the numbers mean, and how technology is changing the work. Finian’s finance background strengthens his credibility as an HR search consultant. It is the foundation of it.
Resilience
Finian: “Resilience is so key. In this very evolving market where things are so dynamic, in terms of global events, geopolitical instability, you will come across cases where companies will downsize or roles suddenly disappear because of delayering. Keep going and stay focused, even when things get difficult. Pair that with curiosity, and you have a powerful combination.”
“Can HR Professionals Move Beyond HR? Or Is the Function a Ceiling?”
Finian is most direct on this point, citing concrete evidence: the CEO of Chanel came from HR leadership at another FMCG company. That trajectory is not an anomaly but evidence of how far the function can take someone who treats it strategically.
Finian: “Move beyond the usual HR routine. Work with different teams, see how they approach things, and bring the best ideas back to your own work. It’s a great way to learn, think differently, and gain a wider view of HR.”
The constraint is usually self-imposed rather than organizational. HR professionals are reluctant to raise their hands for assignments outside the function, partly because of compensation concerns, partly because the impact is less visible.
Business Fluency Is What Gets You There
Top HR leaders use numbers to show how the business is doing. They translate engagement data into revenue impact and connect headcount decisions to profitability outcomes. That fluency only comes from time spent in finance, operations, or business partnership roles.
Finian: “Strong HR leaders explain complex ideas in a simple, easy-to-understand way. They use people data to explain business outcomes, show how engaged employees can support revenue growth, and highlight where HR decisions can improve the bottom line. When HR can clearly show these connections, its value becomes much easier to see.”
Communicate What Happens Next
Many mid-career professionals turn down cross-functional roles because they don’t know where the move could take them. It’s often not about a lack of ambition; they simply haven’t been shown the growth opportunities ahead.
Finian: “A leader may show you where to start, but your next move makes the real difference. People don’t know what happens next. When people understand what comes next, they feel more confident about making a career change.”
“How Should HR Professionals Think About Personal Branding?”
Finian’s answer is characteristically precise: not more posting, but better positioning.
Finian: “Branding is definitely important. You need to be present in a digital sense: that people know how to get hold of you, how to contact you. As a candidate looking for jobs it is also important that you are visible.”
The platform he references without hesitation is LinkedIn. Not TikTok. Not Facebook. LinkedIn, used with professional restraint and a bias toward thought leadership over personal disclosure.
Finian: “Sometimes less is more. It is really about providing the right message to the people. When one individual keeps on posting within a week, that tells another story about what the individual is doing.”
His own approach is instructive. He shares his take on HR trends, explores how technology is changing the field, and discusses hiring-market data. Each post reflects both his personal expertise and the positioning of ChapmanCG as a thought leader in global HR search. The personal brand and the organizational brand are aligned, not competing.
For HR professionals, the implication is specific: your LinkedIn profile should reflect where you want to go, not just where you have been. The CHRO aspiration should be visible in the topics you engage with, the conversations you contribute to, and the credibility you build before you ever need to make the ask.
“How Do You Lead Employees From Different Generations?”
Many HR teams don’t give this operational challenge enough attention. Generational differences are real, they run deep, and a single management style will not serve all of them.
Finian: “Every generation finds its own way to use technology. It is a different economic situation and their wants are quite different. As HR leaders we will need to listen to their needs and also manage them.”
Millennials and Gen Z are projected to comprise 74% of the global workforce by 2030 (Deloitte, 2025), while Baby Boomers are holding senior positions longer, concerned about redundancy and skill obsolescence. The tension between a generation that grew up without digital tools and one that has never worked without them creates a communication problem most organizations have not yet solved.
Why Reverse Mentoring Works
Finian: “Reverse mentoring flips the usual setup. A younger employee mentors an older colleague, sharing fresh ideas, skills, and perspectives. Having that allows two groups of generations to understand each other better. That will avoid many misunderstandings and allow them to collaborate much further.”
Reverse mentoring is now used by 72% of Fair360’s Top 50 Companies for Diversity (formerly DiversityInc) as of 2025. When a Gen Z employee teaches a senior leader to use a new platform, both learn something more important than the technology: they learn how the other person thinks.
“Do Organizations Really Need to Hire for Culture Fit?”
Finian says no, or at least, not primarily. And his reasoning is grounded in what he has observed across hundreds of placements.
Finian: “Culture fit is a very important aspect. But personality fit is even more important. Between the hiring manager and the employee, ultimately, employees leave managers instead of companies. I would say that personality fit and chemistry fit between the hiring manager and the employee is important.”
Culture is a company-wide abstraction. It is set at the leadership level, expressed in values documents, and maintained through policy. But the day-to-day experience of work is determined by the relationship with a direct manager, and that relationship has nothing to do with the culture deck.
Every large organization also has subcultures within the overall culture, sometimes contradictory ones. A company with a stated culture of empowerment may still have pockets of micromanagement, and a culture of innovation may coexist with departments that are deeply risk-averse. Hiring for fit with the stated culture can miss what the actual working environment will feel like.
Finian: “Every company has an overall overarching culture, but there are always subcultures within. The subcultures, whether positive or negative, all depend on how leaders communicate and listen to their own people.”
This is where assessment tools add genuine value, not as a replacement for human judgment but as a data point that makes the personality fit question answerable before the offer is made.
Finian: “Assessment tools give hiring managers useful data to make better hiring decisions. They shouldn’t be relying on only one data point. They should be looking at the totality of all the data points together.”
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Xobin Talks – Episode 19 | Finian Toh, Managing Director, ChapmanCG | Hosted by Manjeet Kaur, Xobin
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About Finian Toh
Finian Toh is Managing Director at ChapmanCG, a global HR search firm founded 15 years ago that operates across all major geographies with people on the ground in key cities worldwide.
Finian began his career as a chartered accountant, spending six years in finance before pivoting to HR recruitment in 2009, a move intended to last one year that has now spanned nearly two decades. He specializes in placing senior HR leaders across industries, which has given him a rare vantage point on what drives HR careers forward and what causes them to stall.
He is based in Singapore and is a regular contributor of thought leadership on HR trends and the impact of technology on the profession.
Connect with Finian on LinkedIn | Organization: ChapmanCG
HR takes care of everyone else. Xobin Talks exists to make sure HR gets some of that same attention. Watch more episodes.
Frequently Asked Questions
Is HR a good long-term career choice?
Yes, and the scope is broader than most people entering it realize. HR spans talent acquisition, learning and development, total rewards, people analytics, organizational design, and HR technology. Senior roles like CHRO command significant influence and compensation. Professionals who treat it as a strategic function rather than a support role tend to build the most durable careers.
How many years does it take to reach the CHRO level?
Typically 15 to 25 years of progressive experience. That path runs through HR Specialist or Generalist, HR Manager or Business Partner, Director, then VP or Head of HR. The timeline varies depending on organization size, cross-functional assignments, and how early you build business credibility.
Why do HR professionals burn out more than other functions?
Because they manage everyone else’s well-being while often having no structure for their own. Multiple industry surveys have found HR and Legal professionals report the highest burnout of any professional category. Asking for help can feel inconsistent with the role, making HR professionals less likely to flag stress until it becomes a crisis.
What is reverse mentoring and does it actually work?
Yes, and it works for a reason most people miss: the benefit is not skill transfer but assumption removal. When a younger employee and a senior leader exchange perspectives, both understand the other’s context better. A growing number of top-ranked employers for diversity now use it as standard practice.
Should you hire for culture fit or personality fit?
Personality fit with the direct manager matters more than culture fit, because people leave managers, not companies. Culture is set at the leadership level but the actual working relationship is shaped by the direct manager. Structured personality assessments used alongside interviews give a more reliable signal than gut instinct alone.
How important is LinkedIn for an HR career?
Very important, especially at the mid-to-senior level. Post on thought leadership topics relevant to your expertise, keep frequency disciplined, and align your profile with where you want to go, not just where you have been. Less is more. Quality and relevance matter more than how often you post.
What skills does an HR professional need to reach the C-suite?
Business fluency is the distinguishing skill at the senior level. CHRO-level professionals connect people’s decisions to financial outcomes: engagement in revenue terms, headcount in productivity terms. That fluency usually comes from time spent outside HR. Empathy and communication are necessary foundations, but not sufficient on their own.
Is talent acquisition the same as HR?
No. Talent acquisition is one subset of Human Resources. HR also covers total rewards, learning and development, HR operations, HRIS, employee relations, organizational design, and people analytics. Talent acquisition focuses on bringing people in. HR manages the entire employee lifecycle from onboarding through offboarding, including development, engagement, retention, and departure.
